SIN demo   Hollywood Rocks 4CD Boxset feat. SIN
SIN
demo

Recorded : Early 1985
Produced by : Dana Strum
Time : 00:00


01 On The Run (0:00) Fox / Drossin 
02 We Got Your Rock (0:00) Marty Kupersmith
03 Break Down the Walls (That Stop the Rock) (0:00) Fox
04 Don't Say Goodbye (0:00) Kristy





LABELS :
Track 01, 02 and 04 : unreleased

Track 03 : "Break Down the Walls (That Stop the Rock)" appeared on the 4 CD Boxset "Hollywood Rocks" (
Cleopatra / DeadLine Music 1308, released June 21, 2005)




Sin is :
Rik Fox (bass)
Frank Starr (lead vocals)
Mark Anthony (drums)
Jay Kristi (guitars)
Richie Martel (guitars)

guest musicians
Tommy Thayer (backing vocals)
Patrick Young (backing vocals)
Ric Reed (lead vocals - see notes below)
Mark Slaughter (some lead and backing vocals on track 04)
unknown (drums on track 04)



NOTES :
Produced by Dana Strum. 
Engineered by Les Cooper.
Recorded Early 1985 at the Encore Recording Studio's in Burbank, CA





Extra NOTES Track 01 :
An earlier version of the song "On The Run" appears on SIN's only official release, a shaped picture disc single of the band's logo containing the songs "On The Run", backed with  "Captured in Time" (which was Sin's 'Homage' to ANGEL'S "Feeling Right" of their "Helluva Band" album).  
Both songs were recorded summer 1983 at Baby-O studio's Hollywood. 
The shaped picture disc single was released by AZRA / Fallen Angel Records, early 1984.

Another version of "On The Run" appears on JAGWIRE's only (vinyl) release "Made In Heaven", which actually is SIN with founder Rik Fox's bass parts removed, and re recorded with the band's new bass player. 
"Made In Heaven" was released in 1985 by Target Records (Target 13464), and reissued on CD in 1989, by German label SPV / Steamhammer (SPV-60-7582).

In 1984 Rik Fox 'reformed' SIN with a new line-up (Mach II), and re-recorded "On The Run" with VINNIE VINCENT INVASION bassist Dana Strum producing their 1985 demo.
The result was a demo that turned the heads of all the major labels at the time! 
It was believed, that since Strum was (then) bassist for the VINNIE VINCENT INVASION (who, incidentally, ripped off FOX's SIN material for his 2nd album "
All Systems Go" while listening to the SIN mix-downs with Strum), and they had a contract with Chrysalis Records, then it would be Strum who would get a piece of the action by getting SIN signed to Chrysalis as well. The results were, they turned out the demo from Hell, and Strum's input saw the SIN sound go deeper towards a hook-oriented version of Judas Priest! 
His road-ripper "On The Run" (penned by FOX and a favorite with their following), was a biker song in true biker fashion, telling the story of a biker on his way across country "...If you live for the road and you wanna be free"... This song was ripped off by VINNIE VINCENT and re-named "Let Freedom Rock" with Strum and Vincent conspiring behind it all the way, only having the lyrics re-written to poorly cover it up.


Extra NOTES Track 02 :
"We Got Your Rock" is a remake of the Marty Kupersmith-penned song, originally written as a follow-up to Joan Jett's "I Love Rock & Roll", only, the SIN version (also beaten to the punch by
Frehley's Comet), sounds more like the anthem-laden material of Twisted Sister! 


Extra NOTES Track 03 :
"Break Down the Walls (That Stop the Rock)" appeared on the 4 CD Boxset "Hollywood Rocks" (
Cleopatra / DeadLine Music 1308, released June 21, 2005) , but with the wrong liner notes in the booklet, suggesting that the line-up for the song was an earlier version of Sin containing Rik Fox, Art Deresh, Howard Drossin, Vincent Gilbert and Carl James; recorded in 1982.

Rik Fox : " The version on the Cleopatra Boxset is the version with the backing vocals provided by Tommy Thayer and Patrick Young of  of BLACK N' BLUE.
The only other version we did in SIN was with Frank Starr (ALIEN) singing, and this was a slightly different arrangement, actually the version with Frank Starr was the original version, before it was re-arranged by Dana Strum who was producing us at that time. 'Break Down the Walls' was not yet written in that earlier first L.A. version of SIN, so they never recorded it.
All L.A. versions of SIN did, however perform and record my other song 'On the Run'.


Extra NOTES Track 04 :
"Don't Say Goodbye" penned by guitarist Kristi, is very commercial, and should have been offered up to the various telephone companies for their T.V. Commercials! 
Backing vocals on the SIN demo were provided by Tommy Thayer and Patrick Young of BLACK N' BLUE, courtesy of Geffen Records, and Mark Slaughter appears courtesy of Chrysalis Records. 
Lead vocals were provided by a relatively unknown, obscure San Diego singer named Ric Reed, (who then, wanted SIN to become HIS backing band!), and some by Mark Slaughter. Drums were provided by another unknown player from Las Vegas, thru Dana Strum, because Strum 'came in and removed vocalist Frank Starr and drummer Mark Anthony, against Rik Fox's wishes. 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Extra Notes :  
email-conversation between Rik Fox and KRR (Jelle Jansen), May, 2009.

KRR : Recently an online KRR website friend, Thorbjörn Brorsson, who is helping me for years to find rare and related info, attended me about the connection between you and current KISS guitarist Tommy Thayer.

Rik Fox : Congratulations on your good detective work!

KRR : The cool thing about the whole story is that since early (and especially during the) 80's I collected all kinds of related releases, not only KISS.
When I though a producer, songwriter, musician is good, I nearly bought a related vinyl blindly. Same counts for STEELER. I really liked that album, as well as these US METAL compilation albums on Mike Varney's Shrapnel label. So when STEELER broke up, and I heard Yngwie Malmsteen Rising Force album as well as KEEL's "Lay Down the Law" album (both 1984), I thought why not buy that SIN picture disc in Amsterdam as an US import. 

Rik Fox : As a fellow fan of rock, I, too, have done the same thing in similar fashion.

KRR : I had to order it, but hell "Captured in Time" is still one of my all time fave's ... 
Yep I'm also a Angel, Giuffria, House Of Lords fan ...
The next step was buying Mark Edwards EP "Code Of Honor" EP and the Yngwie related 3rd Stage Alert EP.

Rik Fox : Thanks. Despite all the bad blood that went down in that first L.A. version of SIN with Vince Gilberts (keyboard player), and the others, we actually had some fun writing, arranging and recording "Captured in Time". 
That was our 'tribute-feel' to ANGEL at its best and strongest. 
Since Vince resembled Giuffria and I resembled Punky Meadows, it was interesting in the comparisons.
I always liked that keyboard-guitar duel on ANGEL's 'Feelin' Right', so that was what we tried to 'recapture in time', with our own feel into it.

KRR : Around the same time I bought ALIEN's "Cosmic Fantasy" EP, I can't remember why, maybe they were mentioned in Dutch Hard Rock / metal magazine AARDSCHOK, which once mentioned SIN in a Yngwie Malmsteen special (Aardschok, September 1984).

Rik Fox : Right. That Aardschok article caught me by surprise, I found it by accident while visiting my home in N.Y. and saw it in a record store. Although I never had the entire article translated into English, I felt quite flattered for the attention we received and the photos of Yngwie & I playing together in STEELER. ALIEN was mentioned, because several of their members became members in SIN later. ALIEN broke up, I was told, because their bassist (who looked a bit scary like KISS's Gene Simmons) killed someone in a drug deal and he went to jail. Since the ALIEN bassist was the brains behind the band, without him, the band fell apart. 

KRR : I was a little disappointed when I finally found that JAGWIRE album on CD somewhere in Germany in 1989, after spending summer holidays in former Yugoslavia.

Rik Fox : It actually was made into a CD?!? The head of their record label told me himself that their record failed miserably and most of their pressings were returned. It was a big loss for them.

KRR : I still think the songs on "Made In Heaven" are good, but it didn't blow me away like Giuffria did with his/their first solo-album. So Jagwire (SIN) surely made a wrong minded decision continuing without you in the band ......

Rik Fox : You know what's really funny? The members of Jagwire complained that I wasn't a very good bass player. Well, if I had already made a strong mark with STEELER, and proved myself, and night after night onstage playing, then how can they actually claim such a lie as an excuse to remove me from my own band? If I couldn't play, then why form a band around my name in the first place? The members forgot that the band was formed *because* of my good name and drawing reputation in STEELER in the first place. So their claims by default and an attempt to save them from embarrassment are pure ego and jealousy speaking.
Once they started to get noticed, they figured that they no longer needed me to help open any doors for them. When we first formed, they were all pretty much 'unknown' players in the big picture, and I was the catalyst to get things going. I went out and looked thru the Hollywood rock scene for players who had potential to further enhance what I was looking for and hoped that they would work out. It doesn't always happen that way, and SIN was a perfect example of this.

KRR : .... especially when I compare the sound of Jagwire to that SIN vinyl. 

Rik Fox : Thank you.
Notice how after they claim that 'they' threw me out, that they had no further substance or original creativity to keep them together? They broke up and failed miserably. At least, we all saw no further musical contributions to anyone, anywhere as far as I remember. So, I rest my case. They all went on to remain virtually faceless and nameless, *except* for Howard Drossin, who, I recently found out, is doing extremely well in the film industry, and other media by composing soundtracks for them. Apparently he's come into quite some acclaim for himself, and other than I, he is the only other member of California SIN (Mach I) who has gone on to keep a good name for himself, so I salute his efforts. The rest? Merely momentary passing faces in a highway of blur as far as I know. Maybe drummer Carl James might be doing something with himself, but he, too, despises the sound of my name. Little 'Napoleon' guys are like that you know. 
Meanwhile, then, why is my name remembered as so popular one way or the other? 
I don't seem to recall many other musicians calling Angel's Punky Meadows a 'poser', yet many of the 'local' L.A. musicians who saw me knock out the fans with our high-powered shows, continually dog me with cheap cat-calls of 'pretty-boy poser', which, tells you right there by the source and nature of the cat-calls, what their true feelings were about me.
It's a common complaint by competing players to attack another because they are not confident enough and are insecure in themselves, so they attack my 'looks' to also justify their complaints about my playing ability, which, is, of course, absurd. 
Even though many producers complained that Motley Cure's Nikki Sixx wasn't a very good bass player, it never stopped him and the other musicians *had* to respect what he was able to accomplish. I always thought he was a decent player myself, but higher respect had to go to what he managed to accomplish overall. I tried the same way, in my own way, and comparatively-speaking, made only a smaller (but remembered) dent in the world of Rock music history. Now, some individuals who knew me, come out of the woodwork years later, to complain that what I say isn't true in my interviews in
www.fullinbloommusic.com . Why? Maybe because I talk openly about those days, that they, too, are embarrassed about something. Me? I have no reason to profit by 'allegedly' lying, so I have nothing else but to speak 'the truth'. And the 'truth' is what really shakes some people up.

KRR : On ALIEN's 1984 EP there's also a song "Don't Say Goodbye" (to me) ..; 
is that the same song (probably with a different arrangement) as the one on the 1985 SIN demo ..... ??

Rik Fox : Yes it is. That was one of the songs they brought to the table when I reformed the next phase of SIN (Mach II), with the members of ALIEN (incl. singer Frank Starr). They came along with guitarist JJ (Rikk) Kristi from N.Y. Jay originally found out where I was living in California, tracked me down, found the telephone number and called me, and was asking me to see if I could get him an audition with KISS (before they found Vinnie Vincent), but Vincent was already rehearsing with KISS, I saw him wearing an old pair of Ace Frehley's 'lightning-boots' at S.I.R. rehearsals next to our rehearsal room.
So I told him they already have a new guitarist...however, *I* am looking to reform SIN and I need new players. He said that ALIEN broke up and he wanted to start fresh and convinced me to let him bring his other band members along. I only wanted one guitarist, but since Richie had the van, and the only way for them to get to L.A., Jay begged me to let him come along too.

KRR : .... If Yes, on ALIEN it's credited to the whole band ... I guess that SIN's Jay Kristi is the same person as ALIEN's Rikk Kristi ?

Rik: JJ and I had shared an apartment in New Jersey together while trying to reform my NY version of Sin a few years prior, until he stuck me with a very large phone bill. 
He was always scamming somebody for something, he was a shady guy, always looking for an opportunity to get something free. When he arrived in L.A. he apologized for the phone bill. Then once we set about to go over and review all the available material he had to draw from, Richie Martel mentions 'what about that other song, Jay, you know, "Time after Time", and Jay stopped him and looked at me like he just ate a piece of shit and it tasted real bad...reason why? Because Jay had also ripped off my song "I'm No Angel" and like Vinnie Vincent after him, re-arranged some of it and created a new song around the hook, while keeping the decending pattern. When Richie and Frank (Starr) found out that Jay had tried to rip me off and was now 'busted' they were pretty mad at him for pulling such a stunt on me. They realized that if they ever took off with that album and it came to my attention over that song, I would have sued them, and owned everything they ever had lock, stock, and barrel...Jay had a LOT of explaining to do, and still could not justify his stealing my song, from when we were back as room-mates. 
He split from New Jersey, ducked out from some people he owed a lot of money to, and moved to Long Island (N.Y.) and changed his name by STEALING MINE!! Just added an extra 'k', and calling himself 'Rikk Kristi'. The surname he took from an old girlfriend that I used to date and introduced him to, and then he dated her, and began using her last name. JJ's real name is Joe Maffi from Staten Island, N.Y.

KRR : Still think it's cool that after about 25 years, mailing to someone I think was looking and sounding cool at the time ... Holy shit, I still remember myself playing that SIN single over and over again ...

Rik Fox : Thanks much for the compliments! Thanks Jelle and Thorbjorn!

D  I  S  C  O  G  R  A  P  H  Y

TOMMY THAYER Next








click album cover to buy ! 

 
BUY > V/A : Hollywood Rocks 4CD box set

Click here to buy
V/A : HOLLYWOOD ROCKS

(4CD Box set)



BUY > V/A : Hollywood Rocks 4CD box set (version 2)

Click here to buy
V/A : HOLLYWOOD ROCKS

(4CD Box set -version 2)


Interview(s) 


Rik Fox (fullinbloommusic.com)

web-links 


Tommy Thayer (official)


Nytshaed's Shrine to Rik Fox



D  I  S  C  O  G  R  A  P  H  Y

TOMMY THAYER Next

TOMMY THAYER Index

Back to menu / top of page



New Visitors click here to enter Kiss Related Recordings

Copyright © 1997 - 2016 KISS-Related Recordings.
This page is part of the Kiss Related Recordings and Discographies website. Maintained by Jelle Jansen.
Nothing contained on KISS Related Recordings may be reproduced in any form or by any means, 
without the prior consent of the webmaster. Neither electronically, nor in print or otherwise.
contact the webmaster at
info@kiss-related-recordings.nl